Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: If the person has the right skills and they're part of an inclusive culture that takes care of their well being, they will then have the maximum energy to release into the organization. All an organization is, is a releasing of energy of each individual and it's a compounding effect. And so if you invest in solving for the Mac with the organization, solving for the micros through the individual, then you have the greatest probability of success of meeting your talent needs.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: You just heard from Susan Podligar, former Chro of MetLife. In this episode of our what Works podcast series, our senior vice president and global industry analyst Cathy Anderis talks with Susan about how MetLife transformed the mobility, culture and well being of the organization with an AI based talent marketplace provided by Gloat. Let's get started.
[00:00:58] Speaker C: Susan, welcome to our what Works podcast. I'm thrilled to welcome you, and I can't wait for our discussion on how you build dynamic organization, the role of culture, the role of technology, and how you fill talent gaps with solutions like talent marketplaces. But before we jump into all of that, Susan, tell us a little bit more about your background and your career and your roles that you've had.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. Well, thank you. And thank you for having me. I'm super excited. I mean, this is the talk about dynamic times in HR. This is just such an exciting time. So, so pleased to be here with you. So about career roles have had a diversity of roles in my career. I started out in consulting with one of the big HR consulting firms, and then actually I did something a little bit different. I did mommy track for five years and then came back into a workforce that I wanted to have a family friendly company. And so I started with Johnson and Johnson. That's where I spent the bulk of my career. I was in Coe roles, HR business, partnering roles from R and D all the way over to corporate, leading their total rewards, analytics and performance functions. And then from there, because I was leading benefits, I actually knew MetLife as a company. MetLife asked me to be their Chro, and that was an incredible journey. I was at Metlife for seven years. That was my most recent role. And recently I have increased my degrees of freedom. Some people call it retiring. I'm still active in terms of optimizing human performance. That is my purpose. That's what I've done throughout my career, is how do you bring out the potential of individuals and how do you bring out the potential of organizations?
[00:02:42] Speaker C: Sounds like you had lots of mobility and different roles in the organization. Certainly was part of your career trajectory too. But tell us a little bit more on career mobility, talent challenges, talent gaps. What have you experienced in all of these roles over time?
[00:02:58] Speaker A: The word that you hid in there was mobility. And listen, some of the roles that I had were vertical, some were just experiences, some were horizontal. And so it's all about how do you actually have that learning, that broadening the breadth of experiences and what I see now and how those talent needs have evolved over time is that, listen, there's so much shift that's happening in the needs. You see generational shifts. You see what does inclusion mean to different folks? What is well being, what are shifting skills that are happening? And so always what I've tried to do is look at how are you going to meet those needs? And now we're in probably one of the most complex times that it's not a linear equation. And when you step back and you really think of what are we actually solving for in talent needs, I see it in two different ways. You're optimizing on a macro level and you're optimizing on a micro, on the macro level. You're optimizing for the organization. Does the organization have contemporary skills? Learning and development, coaching, recognition, culture, those are traditional HR processes, but that has to be contemporary to bring out the best of the organization. And then on a micro level, it's all about maximizing human energy. And that's what I'm all about. How do you maximize human energy? And I see that in an equation, if the person has the right skills and they're part of an inclusive culture that takes care of their well being, they will then have the maximum energy to release into the organization. And all an organization is, is a releasing of energy of each individual. And it's a compounding effect. And so if you invest in optimizing both of those, solving for the macro through the organization, solving through the micro, through the individual, then you have the greatest probability of success of meeting your talent needs.
[00:04:54] Speaker C: I think usually we talk about employee engagement, of creating a better employee experience, but maximizing the energy is just such a powerful way to think about it. And the other thing that I take from this is it's really a win win, right? It's not like the organization wants to go this way and meanwhile employees want to go the other way and it's kind of pulling into different directions. But getting this win win where the energy that you give back and allow people to have makes them much more dynamic.
[00:05:21] Speaker A: Yes. And you hear it does have to be that give and take equation yeah. You know, as I retired and I was able to kind of step back. Sometimes you don't even feel or realize the energy depletion that's happening. Right? Yeah. You gotta replenish that energy or else you're not ready for that job to be performing at your best.
[00:05:40] Speaker C: Can you give us some examples of helping employees be the best? Move them into different directions, do where they're meant to be? How does it work and what specific jobs or maybe talent gaps did you address with that?
[00:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the tough part of this. Right. Is operationalizing all of that. What we've done and what I've done in the past is focusing on all three of those, the skills, the inclusive culture and the well being. So there's one element where you can get all three, that trifecta, and that is in a talent marketplace. We put in a talent marketplace, and I know a lot of other companies, leading progressive companies, have done this. And what we see when you have that is, are people able to get those right skills and develop their skills. They're able to be part of a broader culture that recognizes who they are and the skills they bring to the table, and then also their feeling that they're invested in. And so this well being part comes in. So that Trifecta hits all of those when you have something like a talent marketplace. But I think on the other side, really preparing the organization for the future, talent marketplace is one of those, but you have to do it with an endpoint in mind. So where are you going? And so where are the skills most critical in an organization? Where are their talent interdependencies? And so this is a place that HR can be very proactive in being able to prepare the organization for the future. And this is where we can use a lot of data scraping, a lot of data mining, rather than traditional strategic workforce planning, where you go to the business and you say, well, what do you think the skills of the future that you're going to need in these type of roles? You come to them. For example, where I worked at MetLife, actuaries were one of the most critical roles that we had. So we mine the marketplace and the data to say, these are the shifting skills for actuaries, and we're able to bring that. And we would say, this is how we can augment the skills. These are the courses we can put in place. And so we came with data. We would say, listen, these competitors are hiring for data engineers or AI. So instead of being reactive to what's needed, HR is coming into place of being very proactive, mining the data, looking around corners, and seeing what the organization needs. That's the start of that equation. And then the second piece is then how do you set that infrastructure up to make sure you're accelerating those skills, whether you're accelerating through formal learning, mentoring, coaching experiences. And again, like I said, the talent marketplace is one of the big areas that we were able to utilize in order to develop the skills, the inclusive culture and the well being for ultimately releasing that energy.
[00:08:30] Speaker C: Lots of organizations talk about skills, right? The skill based organization is kind of, everybody's talking about it, but I love how you're talking about these three areas. Can you explain a little bit for those people that might not know about what a talent marketplace is or what it does?
[00:08:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So talent marketplace is basically an internal gig economy.
We set it up so we not only had projects, but we had mentoring, and then we had roles. And so it's really the one stop place where you can go to look at opportunity in the organization. It democratizes access to projects, mentoring and jobs. And what it is, is you can load in your skills through LinkedIn. I downloaded my skills through LinkedIn, and then I was in the talent marketplace. And the beauty of a talent marketplace is it busts hierarchy. And that's one of the things I love the most, because you had people bidding on jobs, or you have the AI actually recommending people for jobs. And then what we did is we took it one step further. If somebody didn't get a role or a project, we actually said, these are the reasons why. And then we connected them to our learning platform. This is how you can get that experience. So it was very holistic how we address the skill development for our people. They felt included because they had a broader access and then well being, it's like, wow, somebody's investing in me. Somebody cares. And when you have somebody that cares about you, has your back, then the trust builds, and that is a foundation of all of this.
[00:10:05] Speaker C: Lots of people might think the talent marketplace is just a technical thing, but it's really cultural, it's really holistic, and really also very strategic to transform the organization.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: You were picking up on the cultural piece, and you get the skills, you get projects done, you get all that. But what's the most exciting byproduct is exactly where you were going. And that is the culture evolution that this took on and that democratization of access, because, you know, if you look in the past, it was more selective in an organization of who access to development. Now it's open and again, hierarchy. We had VPS bidding on projects that they would be reporting to a director. It's not about a title or a hierarchy. And then it's this palpable energy that started building in the organization. We saw our career, our learning and development scores increase as we rolled this out.
[00:11:01] Speaker C: All of the points that you actually just made were characteristics of these most dynamic organizations. I want to talk a little bit about how did people find time? Because that's always the thing that organizations sometimes push back on. They say, well, project work would be great, but our people are so busy. So maybe not for my team. Right. We've worked with an organization that said, when they tried to roll this out to managers, every manager said, yeah, that's great. I'll take people from other teams, but my team can't work on it because they're too busy. Right. They're too busy. Their work is too important. So how did you deal with that?
[00:11:35] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a fundamental question when we started out, but there were probably two things about the time.
The person that led this for us, Chris Smart, it was just brilliant in thinking through, how do we prepare the organization for this? And he actually started out with data, and he asked the organization, if you were going to work on a project, would you give additional hours beyond your core job to the organization? And so people said, if it's my current job and I'm just doing more of, no, if it is something where I can learn and develop and have new skills, yes. And he quantified it up to 4 hours per week. So you start with data, and then the second thing is, do we have to have managers approve a project? And we said, no. The employee then was empowered to manage his or her own time, and they knew they had to deliver their core role before they could take on additional project. But if they were getting their core role done, they could use that discretionary time to go ahead and do a project. And so those two things were absolutely critical in rolling this out.
[00:12:52] Speaker C: I think it's countercultural to many organizations because when we asked them, are you ready for a talent marketplace? They said, well, we'll still want the manager approval for people to apply for internal roles, and they're not going to ask their manager, can I apply for another job outside of your company? Right. So you're making it actually harder to apply, but internal job than just leaving the organization altogether. So I think redesigning your own work because of something that you care about is really key.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: What you're getting to Kathy, what is the role of a manager. A role of a manager is not to manage the work.
[00:13:28] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: The role of the manager, in my perception, is to facilitate optimal performance. And so how do you do that? It's not like I need to govern this person. Covid told us we didn't have to govern our employees. They will come up, they will show up for you, give them the opportunity to show up for you, and guess what? They will.
[00:13:52] Speaker C: It's fantastic. And one of the most important thing that we saw when we studied dynamic organization was actually helping leaders themselves be mobile in the organization and move around in different areas. Was that also a focus area?
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Yep. We had on the platform within MetLife, out of the 44,000 employees that we had, we had approximately 60% active in the organization. It was all levels that were active. People could move, people could do projects, people could have those experiences across the organization.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: 60% active, which is amazing because it's always a struggle to get them to use it, and we always have to use kind of the stick. And this seems to be much more the carer that people just said. I want to go there because it helps me and it's useful for me.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think those other systems are done kind of to them. Right. They're given them. This is being done for them.
[00:14:47] Speaker C: I love that.
[00:14:48] Speaker A: And so it brings out the best of them, and it's being done to invest within them.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: So there was really a lesson for that. You had to push the system for them and more of a pole, as I understand it. Right. Did people actually wanted to use it and they wanted for them to get that system, basically, once it was in place. Yeah. How did you roll it out? Did you roll it out, like in stages, or was it like a big bang?
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question, because I do think there are steps you can take to increase the probability of success. It is a very intentional process.
One, go slow to go fast.
[00:15:26] Speaker C: Love that.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: You should start small, build momentum. And so what we did is we started in those groups that we thought we would get a quick uptake, and then as soon as we saw a green shoot, we celebrated it, we talked about it, and so we started building this. We brought in key influencers in the organization, like, who will be our allies in this, and then might be some of the skeptics that we want to hear that voice as well. And so we had senior executive leadership, team leaders that helped lead this. This was not an HR initiative being pushed in an organization. This was being done in collaboration with the business that this is going to help us get to better business outcomes as well as individual outcomes. Wow. And I would say putting into place a dedicated team. We had a small team, but dedicated. And I would say finally as stayed close to it. It is a chro. I stayed extremely close to this. I stayed close to the metrics. I was the one who said, what do you need? How can I accelerate? What problems are you facing staying close and just let them know you got the back and how exciting this actually is to the organization. And what I said to the team, and I've said it before, is that out of anything I've implemented in HR, I think this is the greatest gift I've ever given to a broad organization. Wow. Because bringing out the beauty of who they are as an individual and it's bringing out the beauty of what an organization can achieve.
[00:16:57] Speaker C: What would you say are the biggest results that you accomplished?
[00:17:01] Speaker A: As we rolled it out, was it all butterflies and roses? No. So we had to really tensional and on top of it, things such as do you have the right number of projects in the store in order for people to pick? And are they quality projects? I mean, you just have to be really intentional behind this. And so that was one of the metrics over time. What were the projects, what were the quality projects? What were the quality?
But the more macro outcomes were things like capacity hours released. When I left at the end of May, we had over 400,000 hours released within the organization. I think the other thing too, it unlocked dormant skills that were sitting in the organization. And for example, we in HR put out a project. We wanted to have internal coaches within HR that we could allocate across the organization. So we put a project out and said, do we have certified coaches in the organization? And we found we ended up having over 100 coaches in an organization that were not just sitting in HR. And so there were people that went out and got these professional certifications but weren't using them. So these dormant skills then rose to the top and they were able to contribute those skills into the organization. Democratization of access to development is a fundamental truth. I wanted to make sure all employees had. Coaching is one of those elements of development as well. So the vision is to have coaches.
[00:18:33] Speaker C: For all of it's something that I think every employee appreciates so much and you show it with the numbers of people who are engaged in the platform on a daily basis. So now you're in a different position. You're not implementing these solutions directly anymore, but you're now a board member and you have to make sure that as part of that role, to make sure that the organization where you're on board, they're future ready to. What are your expectations now as you're in a, in a different position and a different role?
[00:19:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say, you know, as a CHRO, your main concern is, is the organization and are your employees prepared to deliver now and in the future? And I would say that's the same for a board member. It's still true that you want to make sure that the organization is, is ready to deliver, but I think the other lens that has to be added to it is that lens of risk. What is the risk to the shareholders if not prepared for the future?
It's not to get in the weeds of actually defining how it's done, but making sure that understand that the organization is prepared for the future.
[00:19:44] Speaker C: I think it's so powerful that you were directly engaged with it on a daily basis, and now you're on the board, you're looking at it as a tool to manage organizational risk. What lessons did you learn? And anything that people should watch out for, should consider as they are considering using a talent marketplace for culture and skills and well being, you know, just.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: Be really intentional, be involved and really provide the support for the team. And then I would say, you know, just on a broader basis of, you know, just learnings and just the position of where HR is and the role of bringing out the best of talent is ultimately, I think it's a great time to be in HR. I really fundamentally believe that technology, such as a marketplace, can be utilized as an accelerator to really optimize. What is that talent ecosystem? What do you have to deliver? There's so many technologies that can help us get there and accelerate that. We don't have to just be doing small projects, small projects, small progress projects that have incremental impact. These are transformational things that can help us with our talent. And I just think it's a great time to have impact for employees and bring out that energy.
[00:21:03] Speaker C: Wow, what a powerful thing to end on. And I think AI power talent marketplaces are actually not just tools. Right? They're not just like a tech thing that you kind of delegate to somebody because they're really transforming your organization at the culture of the organization. They help the organization with skills and closing skills gap, but also they help employees with their well being and with releasing their energy. And I love all of that. So thank you, Susan. I really appreciate your time, and I wish you all the best releasing your energy.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Thank you really appreciate the conversation.
[00:21:42] Speaker C: Thanks for tuning in to today's episode of the what Works podcast. We had such a fantastic discussion with Susan Podliga, the former Chro of Matlife. She shared with us how her team leveraged gloats AI based talent marketplace to drive transformation. Susan highlighted how this approach fostered a dynamic culture, enhanced skill development, and boosted employee well being. She calls this maximizing human energy. Whats really impressive is that 60% of the workforce regularly engage with the talent marketplace. They free up time to learn, to work on projects, and to build out their career. The company also saved 400,000 hours using internal resources for projects instead of expensive consultants, and at the same time theyre supporting employee career development and mobility. And now, as a board member, Susan sees the talent marketplace as an important risk management tool to prepare the organization for the future and avoid talent and skills gaps.
I hope you found this conversation as insightful and as inspiring as I did. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review share it with your colleagues. Stay tuned for more deep dives into strategies and innovations shaping the future of the work. Until next time.
