Episode Transcript
[00:00:05] Speaker A: Hello, everyone. It's year end and in January we're going to be publishing a very major report on the rise of the super worker. To talk to you about what's coming in 2025. But before we do that and just to reflect a little bit on the last year, I want to kind of give you a retrospective on 2024. And I think there are 10 big things that I took away with this year that I think might be worth thinking about over the holidays. The first is conflict. We definitely had a year of massive global conflict in many, many respects. There were obviously the wars in Ukraine, in Israel, in Syria, the potential conflict in China, in the South China Sea, the. The political wars that took place in many countries, including the United States, and the high level of discord on platforms like Twitter or X and other social media platforms, resulting in some really difficult situations around the world, including mental health shootings, continued data on the reduction of mental health, and the problems that companies have in young people. And I think this sense of conflict, unfortunately, has really entered the life of all of our employees. And I'm not saying this as conflict inside our companies or inside our leadership teams, but the outside community has been filled with conflict.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: You can blame social media, you can.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: Blame the media, you can blame politics, whatever you want, but it's a reality. And that has affected our general sense of harmony and collaboration in the global community. Honestly, I think people like Donald Trump and Elon Musk thrive on this.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: You may or may not feel that it's a positive thing for your company.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: But it's a reality. The second reflection I have on 2024 is political polarization. I'm not a politician and I don't.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: Want to get involved in politics at all.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: But it is clear to me that in the United States and in the UK and many other countries, there is a separation between the right wing, the left wing, the old, the new, the anti immigration, from the pro immigration, et cetera. And this has created a lot of conflict within families, within work groups, within people to the degree that I don't.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Think most companies want to talk about.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: Politics at all because it's just too difficult. And I want to just give you my perspective on this.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: The reason we have political systems at.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: All is to resolve differences. And there are always differences. I mean, there's old versus young, rich versus poor, people that live in this city versus that city, people that need this versus that. The political systems are designed to address.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Highly specialized communities of interest and come.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Up with conflict resolution processes.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: So we have some sort of a harmonious society.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: When it works, we all feel confidence in it. Right now, confidence in political systems is extremely low.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Confidence in the Supreme Court and the justice system is extremely low.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: Confidence in business leaders is similarly low, not as low.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: And so this is a second reflection on 2024.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: I'm not trying to judge it, I'm just trying to point it out. The third thing that's really interesting this year is the economy.
And you know, the way I think about it is coming out of the pandemic, we were in a zero interest rate, highly inflationary stimulus world for a long time.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: I lived through 17% interest rates in.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: The 1970s and 1980s. And so when we were in living this world of zero interest rates for several years, I was really shocked at how odd it was that there was no place to place capital other than in a company or the stock market. And of course, the stock market went up and a lot of people invested in crypto and other technologies because there was no alternative. That, of course created inflation, which, you know, we've now started to tame and.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: The inflation rate has come down, but.
[00:04:10] Speaker A: It'S certainly zero and more realistic interest rates. So what we're now living in is a GDP now. Not everywhere, by the way. In Europe, the GDP is not growing.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: In fact, in the UK it just declined.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: And there's issues there. But generally speaking, the consumer spending numbers have been healthy. People have been buying things, companies have been growing, and the economy has been positive. The unemployment rate's been very low. I'll talk about unemployment in a minute. And so most CEOs have been planning for expansion, growth and automation and AI and productivity increases. I'll talk about that in a minute. We could have a recession next year. I sort of feel like we're due for a real recession, but it may not happen.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: It's very hard to say.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: In fact, most of the economics predictions are very positive. I just read one from Apollo Group that was just incredibly positive. I almost surprises me that they're so unanimously positive. That's usually a bearish signal, but, you know, we don't know yet. So we have this economy that's growing not everywhere. There are countries like the UK and Germany where things are not growing very well. And, you know, China's slowed down. The India economy is doing great, but it's slowing down. But we had a year of pretty good growth.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: The stock markets hit highs after highs.
[00:05:26] Speaker A: After highs, cryptos at an enormous high.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: And in fact, it does appear to.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Me that the economic community is coming to grips with the fact that maybe cryptocurrency is as good or better than gold as a place to store value, that's creating a little bit of a bubble too. But that's all good stuff because people have money to spend and they're out.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: There doing things and they're buying things.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: And they're going places and they're living their lives, you know, coming out of the pandemic. So anyway, that's number three. Number four, this issue of labor shortages. You know, the Biden administration has made a big deal about the fact that the unemployment rate is low. Most of our research does show that.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Around the world we have a labor shortage.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: There are fewer people being born than there are jobs being created. There's a lot of immigration needed. You know, 40 to 50%, some statistics say 70 to 80% of the jobs created in the United States actually were filled by immigrants. In the United. In California, where I live, almost all of the increase in employment was immigrants.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: So we have these issues in countries.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: That we can't tolerate as much immigration because there's social pushback, but the jobs aren't filled. So the unemployment rates are in the 4%, sometimes lower. That is actually not the real situation because as I look around at the.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Job market and talk to lots of.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Companies and look at a lot of data, what we actually have is a bifurcated job market. We have hyper low unemployment for hourly labor, nurses, healthcare, retail, hospitality, travel, jobs, shortages all over the place in construction.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: But for white collar workers, actually it's.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Not such a great job market at all.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: A lot of white collar workers are having a very hard time finding jobs.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: The quit rate has gone down to zero. They're afraid to leave their jobs. And there was a very interesting study that just came out from Adecco that said that 77% of white collar workers.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: Are worried about AI taking their job.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Away and they're sticking with their employer and asking their employer to take care of them. So I don't think low unemployment means labor shortages in every part of the economy because there are literally software engineers who can't find a job right now. What that says for hourly and non college degree workers is there's going to be a lot of work we're going to have to do to take care of those roles because those are very difficult labor conditions and hard to hire opportunities. Career pathways, education programs, reskilling programs, and tuition reimbursement are going to be popular next year. There is a lot of worker uncertainty in the white collar world and so don't Discount that by looking at the low unemployment rate. The next thing is AI. This was an incredible year of transformation and revolution in AI. Every week, every day, there was another announcement of a breakthrough. A new technology, a new data center, the lack of electricity, the use of AI for video, the use of AI for audio, the use of AI for.
[00:08:28] Speaker B: Agents, the use of AI for superintelligence.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: The use of AI for autonomy.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:32] Speaker A: I mean, we got this all year and most of us, certainly in my case, have become very confident that this is not a life threatening technology. This is a miraculous superman creating technology that we're all going to have to.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Learn how to use.
[00:08:49] Speaker A: And virtually every company we talk to now is experimenting with AI using AI, doing many, many skunk works or projects.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: 2025, as you'll read about in January.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: From us, is all about redesigning companies, redesigning jobs, redesigning work around these platforms.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Because the platforms are so new.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: It's not a simple push the button process. There's going to be a lot of experimentation, there's going to be a lot.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Of internal development inside of IT departments.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: And I don't think the breakthroughs are as obvious as they seem. We're getting lots of hype from companies like Salesforce that we're going to have all these agents and they're going to do all these things, yet Salesforce themselves are hiring a thousand salespeople to sell this. So, you know, I don't think it's as simple as it sounds, but there's gonna be some amazing stories told next year. And I think we broke through the hurdle in 2024 of worrying about it and you know, agonizing about ethics to being re realistic about it, that this is a meaningful, useful technology we're gonna use all over our companies and it.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Is going to force us to get.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: Much more rigorous about data management, data quality, data governance. And I'll tell you about some of the projects we're working on here with Galileo.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Every major Galileo project that we work.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: On with a client gets down to data management and data labeling and data tagging. So that's been huge in 2024. The next one I want to talk about is DEI.
[00:10:18] Speaker B: Lots and lots of articles were written.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: About why DEI is dead, the breakdown of affirmative action.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: And funny enough, if you look at.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: Our research on elevating equity, we've really kind of figured this out a long time ago that what happened in DEI was going back to George Floyd, was.
[00:10:34] Speaker B: That it became a social agenda, it.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: Became a political agenda, it became an opportunity for us to scold employees or teach them about slavery or oppression or disaffected classes. And people just did not want to hear that.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: That's not what work is about.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: Work is about getting along with people.
[00:10:52] Speaker B: Operating and behaving in a fair way.
[00:10:54] Speaker A: And building an inclusive culture at work so that we can get great stuff done on behalf of our customers or clients. And that is where this is going. It's not disappearing.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: All the companies we talked to still.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: Have DEI investments, but they're not being headed by or promoted as social agendas anymore. And so I think this is healthy. That's basically what we learned in the elevating Equity Report two, three years ago. You look at Target stores, you look at Chevron, you look at the pioneers of dei, Coca Cola, that have been working on this for a long time. This is a business initiative. It is not going away. There was probably too much money spent on grandiose training that nobody wanted anyway. White fragility and some of these crazy ideas.
[00:11:39] Speaker B: So we're going back to irrational thinking there.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: I wouldn't look at that as the death of dei. I would look at that as the reframing and the embedded of DEI into our business thinking. The next issue is HR tech. Now. You know, for me as a tech person, I worked in mainframe tech, client server tech, Internet. I was the head of data data warehousing at Sybase, I worked in analytics. I've had a lot of interesting experiences.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: In different parts of tech. I have never seen a more interesting.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: Exciting time in HR tech. HR tech is as complicated as all the other areas of a technology combined because it has transactional data, influence data, sentiment data, psychological data, job career data, social data, job market data, economic data. All relates to what we do in HR. And what has happened in 2024 is a lot of announcements about AI and agents and stuff. But big thing that's happened is talent. Intelligence has quietly become a de facto capability in almost every system.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: It's not always there in the same fashion. But those transactional systems that we used.
[00:12:50] Speaker A: To buy, payroll systems, ATSs, learning management systems, other transactional applications are going to.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Become and they are becoming more intelligent.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: Rather than just tracking applicants, it will source applicants, it will select applicants, it will recommend applicants.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: Rather than just tracking learning, it will.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Recommend learning, it will promote learning, it will personalize learning. This is now becoming much, much easier to do thanks to AI. So the HR tech market is really transforming itself. I think there's going to be a.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Massive disruption in tools and vendors.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: I'm going to talk about the skills based organization in a minute. Why? I think that white paper needs to be burned. But anyway, huge transformations going on in HR tech. You guys, as HR consumers are going to have an opportunity to change out.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: And fix and upgrade a lot of your systems.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: The big vendors, SAP, Oracle, Workday, UKG and the others, ADP are going through.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Huge engineering projects to bring this AI into the systems. And yes, these systems are going to.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Become very intelligent and very predictive and very smart and much, much easier to use with agents sitting on top of them. And so you're going to probably have.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: To look at your tech roadmap a lot next year.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: We'll talk about that later, but this has been a transformational year.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: A year ago I remember most of.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: The vendors were kind of, you know, talking about AI, but they didn't really.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: Know what they're doing. This year they, they're getting it together. It's really been exciting relative to the skills based organization.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: I've made this point many times, but.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: I'll make it clear now. I think we need to abandon that.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: White paper wherever it came from. Just throw it away.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: And just remember that skills is not an infrastructure problem.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: The skills based organization is not a strategy.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Skills technology and skills approaches are solutions to problems.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: And rather than buy and build some kind of a big skills infrastructure and.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Assume that it's all going to work.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: There'S skills technology in almost all of these platforms. Now you can decide problem by problem, recruiting, sourcing, internal mobility, career development, L and D certification, safety, internal mobility, leadership development. You can build skills models for each of these in a practical way. We call them capability models and use the skills technology as needed for each of these applications. And don't assume that you're going to end up with this massive skills infrastructure that's suddenly going to turn into all these solutions. A lot of vendors benefit from, you know, kind of selling it that way, but I have yet to talk to a company that's ever done that.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: These skills systems work well when they're applied to particular problems. And then you can decide whether you need to certify the skill or not.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: Whether you need to assess the skill or not, and how deep you need to go in the skills. And I think ultimately the skills data companies, the Lightcast, Drop, Revelio, others are going to be critical here because no.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Skills infrastructure is any good if it doesn't understand your company's domain, your industry.
[00:15:50] Speaker A: Your job levels, your technologies, your infrastructure and your company. So there is no generic skills system that works for every company that's a little bit about tech. I'll talk a lot more about that next year. I want to talk about data management for a sec. You know, because we've never had AI before and we had all sorts of traditional indexing, search and transactional systems, we.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Tend to have companies with lots and.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: Lots and lots of multiple copies and.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Multiple sources of data.
[00:16:19] Speaker A: If you look at an onboarding guide, if you look at a pricing guide, if you look at a sales training operations manual or a compliance manual, or a regulatory guide in a given company, it's hard to tell which one's new, which one's real, who wrote it, what's the source, who's keeping it up to date? Is anybody keeping it up to date? Maybe it's old, maybe it's new. Maybe there's 10 versions of it. Maybe there's a version for this country versus that country. Right? I mean, this is a really tough problem. We have thousands of assets here and you know, we're not that big. So we know where everything is. And I usually can look at it and I know exactly, you know, whether this is the right version or not. And we tend to be pretty good at it, at it. But we're not that big of a company. So as AI starts to permeate and.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Find all this information inside of your.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Company, you're going to have to get data management under control. So that is another discovery for 2024 that we're going to bring into 2025. Well being. Let's talk about well being. There have been countless studies of the decline of well being around the world.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: Many, many interesting findings.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: One which I want to point out is the fact that men are now lagging women in their career well being and their employment well being. Far fewer men are going to college than women. Men are actually starting to earn less than women in some jobs because of that, especially non college degree jobs.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: So this well being problem isn't just.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: One of a small group of people, it's everybody. And I think there's several reasons for this. Let's face it, the pandemic was a massive trauma for all of us that lived through it. Many of us got sick, we got isolated, we didn't have the same social life we did before, we didn't travel as much. And even though we're all trying to get back to sort of revenge spending on fun and excitement, I think we dented the social structure in our economies and societies. And it hasn't all come back. We haven't had the roaring twenties quite yet. And the research shows, you know, if.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: You look at the number of shootings.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: And suicides around the world, it's, it's significant. And I think the conflict that I mentioned in the beginning is part of this. We have to take this on as organizations because well being affects productivity, it affects turnover, it affects performance and it affects our culture. And what we found in our studies of well being, all embodied in the healthy organization study, is that well being is not a problem of benefits or yoga or apps.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Those are all great.
[00:18:53] Speaker A: I mean, I have all sorts of interesting things on my Apple watch. I, for example, in my particular case, I get up at 4:30 in the morning a lot of times and I go to the gym really early and I have a trainer and that's my thing that just makes my life livable. Other people, you know, go for walks or meditate or sing or play with their dogs and do all sorts of fun stuff. But at an organizational level, wellbeing has to do with leadership behaviors and rewards. If we push people to the limit.
[00:19:21] Speaker B: To make our numbers and we believe.
[00:19:23] Speaker A: That our financial results are the most important things in the world, our employees will suffer as a result.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: I won't get into Amazon and all.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: These things that keep coming out in the press or Elon Musk's companies. Some companies can get away with that, some companies can't.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: But my belief and our data shows.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: That if you build a healthy organization, taking care of flexibility, safety, accommodating people's needs, diversity and inclusion, by the way, is part of well being. People feeling included, Giving people flexibility in their time, not overworking people. Teaching managers how to be clear on what's important. Teaching managers that taking care of people is part of their life experience as a manager, that this is really a.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Management and behavior and rewards issue. And I think if you look at.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: Great companies like Microsoft and Google tech companies, you look at LEGO, Unilever, MasterCard. In the banking and financial services sector, there's all sorts of other companies in different industries. You will find companies that have what we call the healthy organization philosophy and those that don't. And when you uncover crises like what's going on at Boeing or Purdue Pharma or whatever it may be, whichever company you think is the most evil one you run into, usually under the covers. It has to do with reward systems and culture, not giving people a copy of a coaching tool or a benefits application to feel better about their lives. That said, EAPs and mental health support is important and we need to continue to invest in that. Next topic really quickly reflecting on 2024 is leadership. We have crossed the chasm on leadership. Coming out of the pandemic, we talked a lot about human centered leadership, forgiveness, flexibility, work at home. Some of that's been undone.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: CEOs are pushing for productivity and growth.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: And getting people back into the office. And you know what's going on in the federal government of the United States? Oh, they're trying to lay everybody off if they don't show up. Those are kind of edge cases. I think the core issue in leadership that I walk away with from 2024 is that every single employee is a leader.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Every employee, whether it be a frontline.
[00:21:41] Speaker A: Worker, a barista, a truck driver, whoever it is, has situations in their job, in their work, with their customers or with their peers where they have to show leadership traits and they have to behave and influence people and get along with people and make joint decisions. And that is all leadership stuff.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: So I think the Rubicon that we've.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Crossed in leadership is, is that in.
[00:22:05] Speaker B: These flatter, simpler organizations that we're building.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: And by the way, we are doing that, and you're going to see a lot of that next year as flattening and simplifying organizations.
Everybody has to understand the concepts of leadership. So that is a huge breakthrough that.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: Has been coming for many years that.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: I think landed in 2024. We also have on the opposite side of that, leaders like Trump and Elon Musk and autocratic leaders that are setting examples in other ways.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Every CEO is going to have to.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Come to grips with his or her leadership style.
[00:22:40] Speaker B: I don't want to talk about politics.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: But I know in companies that if we don't focus on leadership as a core capability in the company, you end up with an underperforming organization. So we'll talk more about that next year. And then the final observation I have is about hr. And I mentioned this last week. We have really evolved HR into a transformed role. Next year there's going to be a massive amount of organizational redesign around AI. Jobs are going to change, teams are going to be simplified. We're going to have new technologies, much more advanced ways of moving people into new careers and so forth. And HR is just no longer a service organization.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: By the way, we just received the.
[00:23:24] Speaker A: US trademark on systemic hr. Systemic HR is our innovation on how to operate and manage and transform HR.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: And define it for the future.
[00:23:34] Speaker A: For those of you that are clients, you've probably heard a lot about it. Those of you that are not, check out Galileo or call us and we'll Tell you, this is the future of hr. HR is not a support function anymore. In fact, we all use language, which.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Is the wrong language. We call managers, hiring managers.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: We call ourselves HR business partners.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: We stand alone.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: We operate as if we are separate from the company.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: We are not. We are part of the company. We need to be involved in hiring.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: Workforce planning, strategy, business productivity issues, problems that we have in manufacturing, problems that we have in quality, problems that we have in sales and customer service.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: We need to be in those organizations.
[00:24:17] Speaker A: Working directly with them, bringing our expertise, data and tools to market. The CEO must work and the Chro rather must be a business strategist. Working on M and A, working on location strategy, working on remote work strategy.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: Working on skills evolution. Companies like intel that are trying to.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Accelerate their innovation should be very focused on HR issues and HR should be critically part of that. CHROS cannot operate as independent agents anymore. They have to be very highly integrated into the business, as is everybody else in hr. That doesn't mean we're doing away with service centers and you know, answering questions and benefits. All that stuff's got to happen too. But we have crossed that barrier also. And in 2025, as we get into.
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Significant amounts of redesign in companies, this.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Transformed view of systemic HR is got.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: To become a part of your agenda.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: It involves cross training, upskilling, job rotation and really thinking about the HR function at level three, level four in the maturity model. So those 10 or 11 things that I observe we went through in 2024 that prepare us for 2025. You know, that all said, I am.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: A very optimistic and excited person. There are issues, there are problems, there.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: Are challeng in a lot of things we deal with in 2024. But I think 25 is going to be really exciting and really fun. We're going to have some of the.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Most amazing technology at our fingertips.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: We're going to be involved in simplifying and maybe shrinking the size of our teams to operate even more productively. We're going to be heavily involved in talent density and improving the skills and capabilities of everybody in the company. We're going to have much more integrated autonomous data systems coming our way, many of which are coming now, but that are going to be much more interesting. We're not going to be spending so much time on tactical spreadsheets and data analysis. It's going to be much, much easier. We're going to be able to change.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: The user experience for our employees.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: We're going to be much more deeply embedded into our corporations, business processes and I think HR is going to be become and it already is one of the most interesting and strategic professions in business. Yes, finance, important sales, supply chain marketing, operations, R and D engineering. HR is going to be on a pier with all of those. And if it isn't, then it's a reflection of maybe the company you work in or your ability to keep up. I think this is a challenging profession. I think this is an inspirational profession. And I think 2025 is going to be a lot of fun.
So anyway, that's my reflection on 2024. You're going to see some really interesting new ideas from us in January. Keep in touch over the next couple of weeks.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: Get your hands on Galileo because that's.
[00:27:22] Speaker A: The best way to see all the new stuff we're doing. And I look forward to talking to you all next year. Have a great new year and a great.
